Petition to decrease the fraud in scrapping a stolen vehicle through improved legislation

This discussion was created from comments split from "Stolen Avantime" in order to make this information public.


  • edited November 2016
    This is my contribution to preventing this regrettable type of theft happening again:

    I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?

    It needs 5 electronic signatures to get it started, then 10,000 more to get it debated.
    Please pass it on to anyone like-minded, who does not want their pride and joy nicked!

    There will be a tick to confirm British citizenship or UK residence, including a postcode (foreign ones do work, along with the country of origin). Your full name and email will be noted but NOT published. You will be asked to confirm your electronic signature by e-mail. That is all it takes. It took me some effort due to trapped nerves/arthritis!

    Click this link to sign the petition:

    My petition:

    Increase verification to decrease the fraud in scrapping a stolen vehicle.

    Vehicles presented for scrapping by a thief can currently disappear if no V5 is presented on arrival at the scrapyard. There is no electronic information or cross checking link between DVLA and police forces in the UK. Remove the facility of cashing the cheque to the thief by the scrapyard.

    This follows an incident with a rare vehicle which after being stolen, disappeared, was effectively crushed, and all that happened before any checks could be made.

    Click this link to sign the petition:

  • It takes 10,000 signatures to get it "considered". 100,000 to get it debated! Please note which other "organisations" you send it to ..., for example ...
  • Good work !! Signed Sc
  • Signed. Flicking through, I found this one of interest too :)
  • Now I've signed that should give the five supporters needed for it to go live.
  • One more, Mike, my own signature does not count ... The weekend is upon us. More people should log on.
  • Now informed that the petition is "under consideration" and could be published as early as next week.
  • well done - signed now
  • edited November 2016
    A borrowed MX5 lasted less than 12 hours on my drive before being stolen, never recovered. Signed x3. Easy process. Well done George.
  • Once it's live I can post it to TalkMorgan - a *very* busy Morgan owner's forum
  • ALRC Association of Land Rover Clubs secretary informed.
    I will confirm to them and fbhvc secretary with the petition details if the petition is checked and "published".
    Since the Defender is no longer in production, more are being stolen for parts.
  • Whilst the most interested group will be classic car owners, I do think its a potential issue for many more car owners of 'normal' cars. If you have an older car, 10+ years, it could easily have reached the end of its life through an expensive electrical fault or something and someone looking for £100 odd easy money could just pick it up on their truck and be away (even though its in working order). If enough momentum is created through owners clubs etc the wider motoring press may publish it.

    Just a, feasibly someone could lose the V5C and therefore scrap it having lost it...but they also lost the keys? And NOT the proof of purchase! A simple law change requiring anyone who has lost their V5C to apply for a new one prior to selling would prevent this being able to happen. Just make it the requirement that to sell/transfer the car the V5C must be present, and only the last recorded keeper can apply for a replacement V5C and that would be sent to their address (or they provide proof of change). It's probably not an infallible system still, but, although ive never done it myself, getting a replacement V5C looks relatively simple, fill in a form, give them £25, wait 5 days.
  • I can see DVLA liking that one as they get to extort another £25.
  • Well, given the system seems to be there more to make money and send you speeding fines, it might as well serve to do what it is supposed to be there for as well. And lets face it in the world of car ownership £25 is not much (its £15 for the privilege of using monthly direct debit on car tax!), most admin charges (like changes to insurance policy) are around this, and its not something you would normally need to pay. DVLA only wins for scrapped cars though - if you sell a car without the V5C the new owner just has to pay the fee.
  • The petition has been accepted and published. 16 signatures so far, and only 10,000 to achieve for the first stage.

    173840 is the number to search for and make known to any British citizen or UK resident.

    I will start contacting all the UK car clubs on the downloaded government list I have, beginning at "A". It is for the benefit of any and all vehicle owners with a V5 document.

    Next question is how to add a higher level of security? Add an e-mail address, a phone number? A question to which only the owner would know the answer?
  • edited November 2016
    I don't think you can add verification to the V5 - the issue is that you don't need the V5 to scrap or sell the car! If you were to add an email it would be limiting as not everyone has email, and working in a call centre it seems some people change their phone number as often as they fill up their car.
    I think the answer lies in ensuring the V5 is present at transfer/scrapping and checking the persons ID against the V5. Further security could be used by having a web portal for scrappers to register and check the details in real time against the DVLA system (this could consist of them entering the info on the V5 and the computer coming back to confirm it is correct or not, to prevent scrappers just having everyones details!). Then if anything did happen illegally, atleast the DVLA should know immediately if the owner phones up.
  • Hidden tracker?
  • The principle would seem to be that if there is no V5 that there should be a question of honesty involved ...? and questions asked ?
    If there is no link between DVLA and police computers how can you verify any doubt?
  • It's not police and DVLA computers that need to be linked (well, that would be helpful after the incident), its the scrapyards and DVLA, then they can check the owner details match the ID prior to sale, and then DVLA would isntantly know where that car was scrapped.
  • Hear hear....tis an old one but its not rocket science 1 Sc
  • Is there an association of "metal recycling" professionals? Is it just the odd few, again, who screw it up for the majority?
  • It is illegal for anyone but an "Authorised Treatment Facility" to destroy a vehicle. They are licensed by DVLA but apparently not answerable to them.
  • edited December 2016
    For not much outlay, one of these looks like an interesting bit of kit:

    It appears that it doesn't need to be continuously monitored, so there are no heavy monthly management fees like you get with some other trackers. Everything is done by SMS text so there aren't any big fees to pay on the mobile bill either. You just add a SIM card of your choice, then once set up, it looks as though you can:

    Set up a 'ring fence' so that if it detects itself moving more than a set distance from a point of your choosing, it will automatically send you a text, or

    You can send it a text and by return it will send one back to you, with its location coordinates, or

    Wire a switch across the door light contacts. If it's triggered without you disarming it first, it will send you a text, or

    Connect a microphone to it, so that you can listen in to any conversation being had in the car (without them knowing), or

    If you think the car is being driven, wire a relay to the fuel pump or similar so that you can cut the fuel supply by text.

    There are other options that you can set it up with. I'm still reading a lot about it on google (just search for "TK103"). There are several YouTube reviews of it as well.

    It runs off the car battery. The drain is small (less than 100mA) but it will eventually flatten the battery. A reviewer on Amazon reckons around a month for an average car, if it isn't started in the meantime. But if you can keep your car hooked up to a maintenance charger, that's not too much of a problem.

    I think I might buy one as an Xmas present to self, just to have a play with it. Coupled with a cheap Giff Gaff PAYG SIM or one of the EE £1 per week jobs, it wouldn't cost much to run.
  • I was looking at this one which is a bit simpler and just does the text response with the coordinates I think - might be simpler to fit, although the other options could be good too.
    I was just wondering where these have to be fitted to work, I dont have a satnav but I thought u needed line of sight to the sky to get a signal? I'm presuming theyre supposed to be able to fit in the engine bay, which is good, as long as they do get the signal when its needed!
    Any PAYG sim should be fine, just check the terms for how often you have to use it to prevent it being cut off and make sure you just keep the line open, then the only cost is the cost of a text every few months.
  • This does some of the leg work on that front and it's reasonably current:

    Only 2G signal is needed, so any contract will do. No data allowance required!

    The boxes don't look as though they're waterproof to me. I'm not sure I'd want to chance one in the engine bay, just in case. They do come with a (discrete) external aerial. I live in a fairly rural area, so I think getting a SIM from an operator with good coverage around here would be more important.
  • Best place to fit it is next to the alarm in the boot, mount the gps sensor on the metal near the light cluster facing out, the GPS signal will penetrate the fiberglass outer skin of the car as will the GSM signal.
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