Petition to decrease the fraud in scrapping a stolen vehicle through improved legislation



  • edited December 2016 Posts: 0
    Thanks Mike. That's good thinking.

    Looking further into the SIM side of things, for me it looks as though Asda Mobile is the best bet:

    In my area, EE have by far the best/most reliable coverage and Asda use the EE network, albeit only with 3G. For this application that doesn't matter one jot. Their PAYG minutes NEVER time expire and the SIMS are free. Texts are charged at 4p each and as long as you send at least one in a 180 day period, the line is kept live. So I reckon an initial top-up of £5 would be enough to keep one of these GPS things running for around 62 years. By then, my Avantime will be worth a fortune and I'll have been worm fodder for quite a while.....

    At least going this route we're not relying (as much) on the DVLA waking up and the vagaries of Policing and their paperwork can be circumvented to a large degree. What would happen if you reported you car stolen AND gave them the coordinates of where it is?!
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 0
    Thats quite neat and compact, the other advantage is that because it has its own battery if you wire it into an ACC or Ignition power source you dont need to worry about your car battery draining, and with a 1000mAh battery I can't see it lasting less than a week (my old phone lasts that long and is powering a screen). The car charger is an additional £10 but looks simple to wire in and is nice and compact - good find!

    A 3G only sim probably wont work, the item is described as 'GSM' which is another term for 2G. A 3G SIM will not work in a 2G device - I have a 14 year old nokia and put a Three SIM in it (they are the cheapest PAYG) and it did not recognise it.
    If it does 2G and 3G that will be fine.
    I expect if you call the police with the coordinates they would go with you to recover the car, i'm pretty sure this is what the tracker companies do.
  • Posts: 0
    You get a free 2g sim card with the device to save you having to look for one, which I think is good of them.
  • The point about the uselessness of the DVLA is well-taken. It seems to me that your details there serve no purpose other than issuing fines and - increasingly - selling them to dodgy car park operators etc. and God knows who else.

    It's been my longstanding policy to not give the DVLA my 'real' address. All you're legally required to do is give an address at which you can receive mail - and I have done so; you're NOT required to give the address where you live or where the car is kept.

    So I've done so using an address which bears no relation to my real whereabouts; it's air-gapped so to speak. Anyone discovering that name and address from the DVLA will learn nothing about ME from it - except for the fact that I can receive mail sent there. I would strongly urge this to become more general practice!
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 0
    GeorgeinBelgium said

    I will start contacting all the UK car clubs on the downloaded government list I have, beginning at "A". It is for the benefit of any and all vehicle owners with a V5 document.

    Next question is how to add a higher level of security? Add an e-mail address, a phone number? A question to which only the owner would know the answer?

    Thanks @GeorgeinBelgium

    Is anyone going to post this to Pistonheads?

    I've put it on Talkmorgan, and have stirred up steady signatures.
    Members there are surprised that there aren't more sigs coming from elsewhere.

    @Avantime4mike is it possible to put a sticky post about the petition on the front page, where not-signed-in visitors could see it?


  • Trouble is though Fireman Mike, it seems if a scroat sees a car sitting on a drive, and he fancies scrapping or cannibalising it, he'll drag it away no matter what, with very little judicial come-back for his actions, and no return of the vehicle to the owner.
  • Ref my post about SORN meaning that the car insurance policy is invalid.
  • Thanks Mike, the car clubs list is going down slowly. Even Editorial @ Classic Car Weekly has been contacted.
    I thought twice about conctacting steam, traction engine and other really heavy duty "vehicle" clubs ... but I suppose you can't go routinely driving around in one of those either.
    What would be the best t-shirt slogan for this "campaign" ?
  • Have you contacted

  • VW owners club GB representative asked me the same by phone this morning, fbhvc were one of the first I mailed.
    I thought the main associations, as well as their clubs, however small, were all worth contacting.
    10,000 is a lot of signatures to get, even given 6 months to do so.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 0
    "@Avantime4mike is it possible to put a sticky post about the petition on the front page, where not-signed-in visitors could see it?"

    Thanks for doing that Mike - I've had feedback from Talkmorgan folk that "they don't believe it" ... posting this to the Home page for non-members will help answer that doubt.

  • edited December 2016 Posts: 0
    The faith some people have in the government is truly amazing! Most large companies manage to create a pigs ear of things quite regularly - the civil service is like a giant company without the incentive of profit - they regularly balls things up and theres next to nothing you can do about it. (I work in customer services for the civil service and am always dealing with people who have suffered at the hands of incompetency/lack of communication/under staffing whos best hope of recompense is an apology if they take the time to put in an official complaint)

  • edited December 2016 Posts: 0
    @Trevor - Thanks for posting about SORN invalidating insurance. I've currently got two cars on SORNs (of them my Avantime) and they are insured on my Admiral multi-car policy, or so I thought. Judging by your comments and this fairly recent thread on Pistonheads, that's not the case:

    I think I'd better call Admiral in the morning!

  • I'm pretty sure that thread is incorrect as far as what the Admiral person said - if a customer SORN's a car then it would only invalidate the insurance if the person then drove it on the road (as this would be illegal). I have not found anything saying the law requires you to cancel your insurance if you SORN your car. If I was to SORN a car I would not tell the insurance comapny, as it does not state in the policy I need to inform them. Provided I am using the car within the terms of what I originally said (eg. mileage, use, named drivers etc.) I shoudln't need to notify them.
    This older thread has a few people who agree
  • Petition latest: 69 signatures, AA, Honest John, and Classic Car informed.
  • Posts: 0
  • Coincidentally I've just come off the phone with Admiral, doing my annual renewal. Once all was done I asked them the "hypothetical" SORN insurance question - and yes, it's as Spudit suggested. No need to notify of SORN. Makes sense
  • Guess what?
    The V5 scrap fraud dates back to at least mid 2012. An article in the Daily Record newspaper, Scotland, notes the case of a Ford Mondeo that vanished while the owner was away on holiday.
    Petition update: More press and car club contact.
    Even one insurance broker who still has the Mondeo story on his website front page (about to be updated).
    2017: Wish everyone you know a safer, happier, motoring year - but remind them to sign the petition - 173840.
  • Signed
  • Making progress on the petition mailings and trying to call where the mail is wrong or refuses to deliver.

    Had some interesting answers, "don't want any of that, phone put straight down, a car delivered to the scrapyard is not a car if the wheels are inside the vehicle, Thames Carrier camper from1966 stolen (owner was so nice not to bother his neighbours with his alarm - in case it went off) ...
    Oh what interesting people the great motoring public are ...

    Up to 93 signatures so far, so lets have 100 for Christmas, leaves only 9,900 to go ...

    Apparently, it is the Scrap Metals Act of October 2013 which created the current state of play.
  • SIGNED 97 on the list,
  • it's not going to get traction unless sites like Pistonheads get onboard... anybody here a regular there?
  • Just hit the 100 signatures. Almost through the 14 DVLA UK car clubs pdf list.
    According to correspondents, probably long out of date. It took one two years to get his address changed, that was only when they needed to contact him.
    The loss of several regional DVLA offices seems to have elongated if not ruined both rapid access and communication in all areas of licensing services. This includes specialised car club services, as checking applications for period number plates.
  • Hallo George,
    woon wel niet in the UK, maar mijn handtekening heb je!
    tot september weer?
  • Bedankt Pete, maar alleen de Britten of bewoners van ons aparte ijland mogen "tekenen". Tot September.
  • Translation:-

    Hi George,
    Not living in the UK, but added my signature!

    Thanks Pete, but only inhabitants of the British Isles are allowed to sign.
  • Petition closed early due to early election. Can only be started again afterwards, but everyone that signed it would need to sign it again. Petitions committee would also be reformed on creation of the new parliament.
    The FBHVC Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs was contacted by mail and telephone, they were "under pressure" and uninterested. That was after going through the DVLA list of UK car clubs to inform them and try to raise support.
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