Roger - No 71 2.0T Illiad Blue readers car thread

bencollins

so we made the plunge, cheap for a reason £1850, just stumped up £315 tax and £300 insurance and facing at least £1000 to get Roger right. some pics.
This week I need to order:
Tyres - Q what is the largest section height i can use with Rhodes alloys? (dont want rubber bands)
Cambelt kit - Q what is the serial of the engine or Gates kit - also looking for water pump. Seen this on ebay...correct? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gates-Timing-Cam-Belt-Water-Pump-Kit-For-Renault-KP25671XS/162597456077?hash=item25db9048cd:g:PJ4AAOSwZ0NZb5Ww
Aux belt - looks good but might as well change - Q anyone with a code?
Front springs and dampers - buy espace series 3? or 4?
Front suspension bushes - anyone with a code.
PDF of the manual around? part codes.
Front discs? from which Renault?
Sorry for the boring first post but really need to nail all the stuff ASAP to avoid a disappointed spouse.
PS ill have a deeper read of the forums this week in tomorrows rain.

spudit2003

Tyres: the standard size for 2.0T is 225/50 17, but 3.0 is supposed to have 235/50, but some people opt for the smaller size.
Cambelt kit: that link is for a 1.6, this is the one you sent want https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153030939838 or https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/water-pump-timing-belt-kit-10553/renault/Avantime/Avantime-de0/16188-2-0-16v-turbo-de0u-de0v with water pump.
If you look on autodoc.co.uk they have most the parts you mentioned, here's the page for the pulley you want to replace as I mentioned on the other thread https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/crankshaft-pulley-12071/renault/Avantime/Avantime-de0/16188-2-0-16v-turbo-de0u-de0v
If you look in the members/downloads section there is a lot of the workshop manual and also the owners manual available in PDF. There is also a document with part numbers, although it's not got everything, but does give you some suspension options. As well as the cobra kit mentioned there you can now get original spec springs made up, there's a link to the site somewhere. There's lots of discussion regarding suspension on here, look under the suspension tag.
The bushes are in the lower wishbone of which has to be removed to replace them, so it's easier to replace the whole thing, they are also available from autodoc (they are probably available elsewhere, but I just bought most this stuff from autodoc and many items were much cheaper than elsewhere).

BillSheppard

Re crankshaft pulley, I've had terrible problems after having to replace mine. Cam belt broke on mine, head already needed doing, high mileage so took the plunge and purchased an engine new old stock, the pulley had perished so fitted replacement. 3 rebuilds latter fitted a new crankshaft cog with woodruff key ( used by boy racers, tuning an F4R engine). Yes we asked Renault, no they said we had done everything correctly, yes we asked other mechanics, no they had no idea, then we found a tuning forum and £60 later it all works

Avantime4mike

@BillSheppard Where do you think you need a woodruff key? If you use a key in the indicator slot on the crankshaft cambelt pulley, you'll be very lucky if the belt fits correctly when the cams are locked in the correct position and the crank is at TDC. Then when you release the locking tools the belt will be less tight than it should be and the timing will move slightly. The crankshaft cambelt pulley is locked into the correct position by a correctly torqued centre bolt which clamps both pulleys onto the crank by friction alone. This is done after the belt has been correctly tensioned but before removing the camshaft locking tool and crankshaft locking pin.

BillSheppard

Well I have, and it works, and the timing is great, 2500km no problems and all race F4R engines use them so there. Oh and its the place where Renault are considering re introducing it. Oh and I do know how the timing is set, but thanks for explaining.

BillSheppard

http://www.engine-dynamics.com/Engine-Components/pid100372/cid95/Crankshaft-Toothed-Bottom-Pulley-with-Integrated-Key.asp this is it

Johnny_Essex

Bill: l looked at the link. Now don't you go and do more than 8000 rpm...

bencollins

Many thanks for the input folks.
Right starting with tyres im gonna splurge on branded probably. 235/50 R17 is D668mm so ill push the envelop a tad 5mm on radius and go for 225/55 R17 at D678mm. (225750 is D658mm).
Before ordering Ill check with my local garage who are pretty good and sorted me out in the past, trusted etc.

matthewgroom

Will they be a bit skinny? How much difference in width can the rim size accommodate?

Johnny_Essex

It is very difficult to notice any difference between 235/50/17 and 225/50/17 on the cars, so a 225/55/17 would probably have even less noticeable difference. That 10mm extra diameter might rub the wheel arches though...

bencollins

hmmm could be a bit skinny but tyres are so massive these days. Appreciate the comments. Have ordered a load of parts, with decent branded tyres we will be up to £800 ouch. Bit worried about the suspension noise now. It has cobra springs at the front supposedly but not at the back giving a hotrod look (unwanted obviously). But have now read that cobra is standard Renault ride height (40mm less than Espace cousin) then why would it be like that? Hope both are not broken or something disastrous like that, but am suspicious. Interesting with the woodruff key on race engines, i suppose everything gets their envelope pushed, but I doubt this engine will ever go above 4000rpm, im more of a trundler and happy with the power of it, so I bought a standard type pulley.

What was wierd was the standard pulley said OD@90mm (out of stock £15) then the will-also-fit alternative was @150mm OD!!! and £50!!!! I stumped up because i need the stuff done and the car on the road. Feel my/enjoy* my pain. Depending on how you look at life. Out to enjoy the rest of the day after wasting a lovely morning parts shopping and pondering why i dont have a 3 year old Corolla.
Thanks Colin for the link to Autodoc.

bencollins

pS i need bushes for the espace S1 hence the mad quanity of bushes.

KaljoK

Agree, if you add to the diameter without decreasing the width you will get holes to the wheel arches. 215/55r17 is exact fit for 235/50r17 wheels. And no significant change in look...

spudit2003

bencollins said:

Bit worried about the suspension noise now. It has cobra springs at the front supposedly but not at the back giving a hotrod look (unwanted obviously). But have now read that cobra is standard Renault ride height (40mm less than Espace cousin) then why would it be like that? Hope both are not broken or something disastrous like that, but am suspicious.

I have cobra springs on the rear for the last couple of years, but just fitted front set yesterday (along with new koni shocks), and the car now has the 'hot rod' look you mention, I am pretty sure only the rear is 4cm lower than espace. In this thread http://www.Avantime-owners.com/forum/discussion/2543/front-springs-broken/p2 a couple of people talk about using espace springs. If you want to replace the springs then you can now get original spec (front) ones made up by springcoil I think they are around £50 each.

BillSheppard

The cobra spring are lowered front and rear for an Espace, but when fitted to an Avantime the rear are still higher then the original springs. You do have a firmer ride and it will be noisier, on the plus side it's more fun on twisting roads

Avantime4mike

Factory Avantime springs are 40mm lower all round than the Espace III. Therefore the theory is that an all round 40mm Espace III lowering kit should provide the correct height all round. I've fitted a few kits now and never had an issue.

spudit2003

Well, mine is definitely lower at the front now than it was, although side by side pics the springs look the same length, so possibly they compress more with the cobras?

Avantime4mike

Is it possible someone fitted Espace springs previously?

spudit2003

Possibly, I was looking through the history to see if any suspension work had been done before, but couldn't find anything. I have the old (non broken) spring, but as the garage fitted I couldn't compare with new ones. As well as my front being lower, I thought the fronts may be the same size as espace from experiences on the thread I linked such as:

RKB1T said:

I have a car with Esp 3 springs all round. The front looks okay but the back is too high look like it could do with bigger wheels. The ride is okay though

If it was 40mm higher all round, the whole car should be at the same height.
I'm fairly happy with what I have now, although haven't had the chance to test the benefits Bill alluded to yet.

Takenforgranted

Don't forget the Avantime is heavier at the front end than an equivalent Espace. The Espace rear springs will likely have a greater load rating than the OEM rear springs for the Avantime, due to its increased load carrying capacity. The combination of those two things could lead to the bottoms-up attitude?

spudit2003

This could well be the case

bencollins

Ummm pondering how to solve the ride height, suspect the dampers are shot at the front hence the crashiness, though wrong-length-to-damper or wrong-spring-to-damping-rate would not help. Need to do more poking about this weekend to see if i can ascertain what is wrong. Glad to hear others have the hotrod look, shared pain etc.

spudit2003

What size tyres are fitted to the front? (currently)

bencollins

ahh sorry for not finding out the tyre size, currently away so cant do that at the mo.
Going in for service part (1) today, cambelt, brakes and fluids. In the downloads section I found a V6 engine manual but not for the 2.0T, was I being dim or is this not in the library yet? I did find the suspension and v6 engine notes. The full manual 24mb is not the engine and gearbox manual which I assume is a separate entity. (sorry if this sounds ungrateful)

Have ordered 2x Konis on Monday at 6am, for the front despite, them failing after 6000 miles for one fellow on that dampers thread, but (autodoc) have not confirmed a delivery time so in limbo. will have to see what the deal is there.

KaljoK

Here are again these photos to compare, on old discussion they are no longer available. On photo with two cars the left one is with Espace OEM coils and right one with Cobra lowering suspension kit for Espace. Photos showing measurements from ground are with full tank and the car is with V6 engine (right hand car on first photo). Higher number is at rear and lower at front.


Rear hight


Front hight

Tempest

Is the visual difference exaggerated by the different wheels?

KaljoK

The rims are same size as original, tyre is five mm less in hight (235/45r17). Although I do not know the other size, it seems to be original 50 hight.

KaljoK

Oh, sorry. I have to correct, hight measurements are from center of wheel.

Johnny_Essex

Reading from the wheel centre provides a good accurate reading which is not affected by tyre pressures or tyre size.

bencollins

Went for the 225/55 R17s and the fit though they do look tight when parked at certain angles. Has reduced the hot rod effect though. At garage again tomorrow to get the rest of the parts fitted.


successful camping trial at Woodhall Spa last weekend, we will need a roof rack though, is it the normal modern plug in type or something fancy?

bencollins

looking for 1x centre cap, preferably new if poss.